Minyan troubles-What is one to do if there is no Minyan by Kaddish before Hodu and got Minyan later on:

Minyan troubles-What is one to do if there is no Minyan by Kaddish before Hodu and got Minyan later on:

Before Baruch Sheamar:[1] If one did not have a Minyan available at the time that Kaddish Derabanon is recited before Hodu, and a Minyan later became available before Baruch Sheamar, the Kaddish may still be recited. [It is not to be recited between the end of Mizmor Shir Chanukas Habayis, and the phrase of Hashem Melech, but rather afterword’s, before Baruch Sheamar.[2] It is to be recited only after a number of verses have been said aloud after the Minyan has arrived.[3] Initially three verses are to be recited aloud, although Bedieved it suffices to say two verses aloud.[4] Alternatively, someone should repeat the saying of Davar Halameid, and Yehi Ratzon, and then say Kaddish afterwards.[5] Alternatively, someone should say the Drasha of Rebbe Chanania Ben Akashya Omer.[6]]

Past Baruch Sheamar: If one did not have a Minyan available at the time that Kaddish Derabanon is recited before Hodu, and a Minyan later became available sometime during Peuskei Dezimra, then some Poskim[7] rule the Kaddish may be recited, even if both the Minyan and the person reciting it are already past Baruch Sheamar. Other Poskim[8], however, rule it may not be recited after the Minyan has reached Baruch Sheamar, even if the person reciting on behalf of the Minyan is before Baruch Sheamar.[9] [This applies even if the person saying the Kaddish is a Yasom.[10]]

Minyan is before Baruch Sheamar-but the one saying Kaddish is after Baruch Sheamar:[11] If the Minyan is before Baruch Sheamar, but the individual who desires to say the Kaddish is after Baruch Sheamar, he may not say this Kaddish.[12] [If, however, he is a Yasom within 11 months of the passing of a parent, then he may recite the Kaddish even if he is past Baruch Sheamar.[13]]



The importance of the Kaddish Derabanon recited before Hodu:[14]

The Kaddish that is recited prior to Hodu is necessary in order to effect the elevations of the worlds during prayer. The prayer is considered like a ladder, and the Kaddish serves as a stepping stool to go from one world to the next, and hence the Kaddish before Hodu is an absolute necessity in order to affect the elevation. [Accordingly, it is imperative that there already be a Minyan in Shul for Kaddish Derabanon said before Hodu. At the very least, the Minyan should wait prior to Baruch Sheamar for it to be recited.]



[1] Kesher Gudal 7:35 that Lechatchila they are to wait before Baruch Sheamar; Chesed Lealafim 55:3; Kaf Hachaim 55:5; See M”A 51:3 in name of Kneses Hagedola that some are accustomed to recite Kaddish before Baruch Sheamar, in contrast to saying it before Hodu. [However, see Ketzos Hashulchan 18 footnote 5 that this follows the Nussach of Ashkenaz to say Baruch Sheamar before Hodu]

[2] See Chesed Lealafim 55:3; Kaf Hachaim 55:5; Yalkut Yosef 48:12

[3] Chesed Lealafim 55:3; Kaf Hachaim 55:5; See Admur 54:4 “A few Pesukim” and that Kaddish may never be said unless it was preceded by verses [he, however, does not make clear if a Minyan must be present when the verses are said, as writes Ketzos Hashulchan 16 footnote 6. Likewise, regarding Kaddish Drabanon of before Hodu, he explicitly writes in parentheses that it suffices to say the prayer of Yehi Ratzon, even though no Pesukim are recited, seemingly because Pesukim are only necessary after learning and not after a Tefila]; M”A 69:4; 234:1 “When one learns in Shul and they then call a tenth man for the Kaddish, it is improper for them to say Kaddish right away and they as they need ten by the actual learning”; Elya Raba 55:3 [suspects for opinion of M”A initially] and 581:13; Chayeh Adam 30:7; M”B 55:2 [concludes that Achronim rule like M”A ibid]; Kaf Hachaim 55:41Ketzos Hashulchan 16:2 footnote 6

Does it suffice to recite verses or must one recite a Drasha or Torah Shebaal Peh? Vetzaruch Iyun if in this case saying three verses suffice, as in general the custom is to only say Kaddish Derabanon after learning a matter of Torah Shebaal Peh, or a Drasha on a Pasuk, and not just on verses. [See Ketzos Hashulchan 16:2] Nonetheless, in truth in such a case that they learned Torah Shebaal Peh, and its just that they did not have a Minyan at the time, it suffices to repeat a few verses, and the repetition of Torah Shebaal Peh, or a Drasha, is not necessary when the Minyan arrives. [See Ketzos Hashulchan ibid; Chesed Lealafim ibid; Kaf Hachaim ibid]

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule it is not necessary to have ten people by the recital of the verses so long as there are ten people by the Kaddish, and thus there is no need to repeat anything aloud when the tenth man arrives. [Taz 55:3, brought in M”B ibid]

[4] Chesed Lealafim 55:3 and Kaf Hachaim 55:5 write 2-3 verses; Ketzos Hashulchan ibid writes three verses; Piskeiy Teshuvos 55:3 footnote 17 in name of Beis David 30; See Admur ibid who writes a few verses

[5] See Admur ibid in parentheses that after Eizehu Mikoman it suffices to say Yehi Ratzon

[6] Chesed Lealafim 55:3; Kaf Hachaim 55:5

[7] Kesher Gudal 7:35

[8] Pnei Yehoshua 1:5; Beir Heiytiv 53:3; Siddur Beis Oved 13; Taharas Mayim 5:20; Implication of Shaar Hakavanos Derush Hakaddish; Shaareiy Teshuvah 51:3; Rav Poalim 2:14; Kaf Hachaim 53:13

[9] The reason: As the Kaddish is said on the Torah learning said before the Kaddish, and if there were not ten people present at the time, then it is not to be said. [Pnei Yehoshua ibid, brought in Shaareiy Teshuvah ibid] Alternatively, as once the Minyan has begun Baruch Sheamar, they have lost the opportunity to say this Kaddish, as this Kaddish needs to be said specifically before Baruch Sheamar for its spiritual effect to be utilized. [Shaareiy Teshuvah ibid and Kaf Hachaim ibid in name of Shaar Hakavanos]

[10] See Piskeiy Teshuvos 51 footnote 71; Nitei Gavriel Aveilus 44 footnote 10; Hiskashrus 591:19

[11] Igros Kodesh 7:139 [printed in Shulchan Menachem 1:214]

[12] The reason: As this is not his personal obligation, but rather the obligation of the congregation. [Rebbe ibid]

[13] See Shulchan Menachem ibid footnote 10; Rav Poalim O.C. 2:14; Alef Lamateh Dinei Kaddish Yasom 4:8 “So write Achronim and so is custom”; Yehuda Yaaleh 4; Sheilas Shalom 43; Maharshag 1:48; See Yabia Omer 7:10; Pnei Baruch 34:19See Kesher Gudal 7:35 that one may say the Kaddish before Hodu even after Baruch Sheamar

Other opinions: Some Poskim rule one may not recite Kaddish Yasom in the midst of Davening, past Baruch Sheamar, as Kaddish Yasom is only a custom and not a Halacha. [Levushei Mordechai 1:112; 2:36; Kaf Hachaim 53:13 that a Yasom may not stop to say Kaddish during Pesukei Dezimra as only the last Kaddish said before Aleiniu [Kaddish Derabanan] is obligatory.]

[14] Arizal, brought in Shaareiy Teshuvah 51:2 and Kaf Hachaim 51:13; Igros Kodesh Rayatz 3:141 in length

About The Author

Leave A Comment?

You must be logged in to post a comment.